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Comments on: Yet another update on ID http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/ politically minded tree-hugging hippie posting about politics, religion, work, music, random events and whatnot Sun, 16 Dec 2018 20:31:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.1 By: Granny Weatherwax http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-182 Granny Weatherwax Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:03:00 +0000 http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-182 ...wonder where you got all this info...? ;o) soikk? Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /www/htdocs/w0081e40/wp-includes/formatting.php on line 75

…wonder where you got all this info…? ;o)

soikk?

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By: David http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-183 David Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:06:00 +0000 http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-183 Hello Melantrys, I read your comment to Najma regarding hijab and decided to check out your blog. This post about ID is quite interesting! As I stopped believing in supernatural beings around the age of eleven, I long ago discounted all the various creation myths of the world's many religions (although, some of them do make for entertaining reading). I do not consider evolution to be a mere theory. I consider it to be proven fact. There are, I believe, various hypotheses regarding exactly how evolution works. However, as far as I know, there are no real scientists that doubt that evolution is real. Some scientists, though, are religious. So, it is not a surprise to me that some might believe that a higher being had a hand in guiding evolution. Even I do not discount the possibility that some sort of highly intelligent extraterrestrial beings might have visited Earth in the past and meddled with some animal's or prehistoric hominid's genome. If the many UFO buffs are right, then perhaps we are still being visited and meddled with. In any case, I am against the teaching of "intelligent design" in schools. There is no testable proof that either a supernatural or a natural being was ever involved with the existence or with the evolution of life on earth. The belief in ID is based not on facts but on faith. Therefore, ID is a religious belief. In the U.S., it is not currently permissible to promote a particular religious agenda in the public schools. However, if Bush and his fundamentalist friends get their way with judicial appointments, Thomas Jefferson's "wall of separation between Church and State" could crumble and fall. I hope that will not happen! Btw, this post was far from useless! Thanks for writing it! :) Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /www/htdocs/w0081e40/wp-includes/formatting.php on line 75

Hello Melantrys, I read your comment to Najma regarding hijab and decided to check out your blog.

This post about ID is quite interesting! As I stopped believing in supernatural beings around the age of eleven, I long ago discounted all the various creation myths of the world’s many religions (although, some of them do make for entertaining reading). I do not consider evolution to be a mere theory. I consider it to be proven fact. There are, I believe, various hypotheses regarding exactly how evolution works. However, as far as I know, there are no real scientists that doubt that evolution is real. Some scientists, though, are religious. So, it is not a surprise to me that some might believe that a higher being had a hand in guiding evolution. Even I do not discount the possibility that some sort of highly intelligent extraterrestrial beings might have visited Earth in the past and meddled with some animal’s or prehistoric hominid’s genome. If the many UFO buffs are right, then perhaps we are still being visited and meddled with. In any case, I am against the teaching of “intelligent design” in schools. There is no testable proof that either a supernatural or a natural being was ever involved with the existence or with the evolution of life on earth. The belief in ID is based not on facts but on faith. Therefore, ID is a religious belief. In the U.S., it is not currently permissible to promote a particular religious agenda in the public schools. However, if Bush and his fundamentalist friends get their way with judicial appointments, Thomas Jefferson’s “wall of separation between Church and State” could crumble and fall. I hope that will not happen!

Btw, this post was far from useless! Thanks for writing it! :)

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By: Melantrys http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-184 Melantrys Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:11:00 +0000 http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-184 And thank you for your comment. :) Here, we have religion courses at school, as you might have noticed in another post of mine. The last teach I had there was also promoting that evolution alone was too big a thing to happen without God giving it a little leg up at the beginning. Apart from that he always taught that the bible should be understood as a parable and not taken literally. Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /www/htdocs/w0081e40/wp-includes/formatting.php on line 75

And thank you for your comment. :)
Here, we have religion courses at school, as you might have noticed in another post of mine. The last teach I had there was also promoting that evolution alone was too big a thing to happen without God giving it a little leg up at the beginning. Apart from that he always taught that the bible should be understood as a parable and not taken literally.

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By: BBB http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-185 BBB Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:46:00 +0000 http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-185 TEH MEL IS A SEXAY MAMMA! Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /www/htdocs/w0081e40/wp-includes/formatting.php on line 75

TEH MEL IS A SEXAY MAMMA!

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By: Frenzie http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-186 Frenzie Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:34:00 +0000 http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-186 <I>IF THE MOUNTAIN WILL NOT COME TO MOHAMMED, MOHAMMED WILL GO TO THE MOUNTAIN - "If one cannot get one's own way, one must adjust to the inevitable. The legend goes that when the founder of Islam was asked to give proofs of his teaching, he ordered Mount Safa to come to him. When the mountain did not comply, Mohammed raised his hands toward heaven and said, 'God is merciful. Had it obeyed my words, it would have fallen on us to our destruction. I will therefore go to the mountain and thank God that he has had mercy on a stiff-necked generation.' The saying has been traced back in English to 'Essays,' (1625) by English philosopher Frances Bacon (1561-1626). It was included in John Ray's book of English proverbs in 1678. First attested in the United States in 'Jonathan Belcher Papers' (1733). In German, the phrase translates as 'Wenn der Berg nicht zum Propheten kommt, muß der Prophetzum Berg kommen." From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" (1996) by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).</I> My interpretation is of course that certain stupid Christians should accept that the Bible isn't the all and complete truth, but those very same Christians would interpret it as that I should accept intelligent design. aiykv!!!! Die by this karate-scream of me evil stupid Christians!!! Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /www/htdocs/w0081e40/wp-includes/formatting.php on line 75

IF THE MOUNTAIN WILL NOT COME TO MOHAMMED, MOHAMMED WILL GO TO THE MOUNTAIN - “If one cannot get one’s own way, one must adjust to the inevitable. The legend goes that when the founder of Islam was asked to give proofs of his teaching, he ordered Mount Safa to come to him. When the mountain did not comply, Mohammed raised his hands toward heaven and said, ‘God is merciful. Had it obeyed my words, it would have fallen on us to our destruction. I will therefore go to the mountain and thank God that he has had mercy on a stiff-necked generation.’ The saying has been traced back in English to ‘Essays,’ (1625) by English philosopher Frances Bacon (1561-1626). It was included in John Ray’s book of English proverbs in 1678. First attested in the United States in ‘Jonathan Belcher Papers’ (1733). In German, the phrase translates as ‘Wenn der Berg nicht zum Propheten kommt, muß der Prophetzum Berg kommen.” From “Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings” (1996) by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).

My interpretation is of course that certain stupid Christians should accept that the Bible isn’t the all and complete truth, but those very same Christians would interpret it as that I should accept intelligent design.

aiykv!!!! Die by this karate-scream of me evil stupid Christians!!!

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By: AGA http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-187 AGA Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:57:00 +0000 http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-187 I disagree somewhat with David's point that he considers evolution to be proven fact. The statement is too broad, and the issue really is what does one mean by the term "evolution." The ID theory is interesting to me, not because I "believe" it, but because it is simply interesting to consider. ID is a bit like evolution, the real issue is what does one mean by using the term "ID". The purpose of my comment is to caution you about lumping ID as a bible thumper's wedge to use to enter the school system. Such a notion is akin to lumping persons wanting to explore and expand evolutionary theory as atheists who want to convert everyone to atheism. Sure ID is used by bible thumpers, and evolution is used by atheists, but neither is the whole story. Here is a link to someone who is pushing ID. I wish that I could have found a better one, but this is the best that I can do on short notice. http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/science/creation-questions/SC-creation-questions.htm It isn't great reading, but I think that if you persist through the article, you might understand that there is more to ID than what you seem to think from your post. Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /www/htdocs/w0081e40/wp-includes/formatting.php on line 75

I disagree somewhat with David’s point that he considers evolution to be proven fact. The statement is too broad, and the issue really is what does one mean by the term “evolution.” The ID theory is interesting to me, not because I “believe” it, but because it is simply interesting to consider. ID is a bit like evolution, the real issue is what does one mean by using the term “ID”. The purpose of my comment is to caution you about lumping ID as a bible thumper’s wedge to use to enter the school system. Such a notion is akin to lumping persons wanting to explore and expand evolutionary theory as atheists who want to convert everyone to atheism. Sure ID is used by bible thumpers, and evolution is used by atheists, but neither is the whole story. Here is a link to someone who is pushing ID. I wish that I could have found a better one, but this is the best that I can do on short notice. http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/science/creation-questions/SC-creation-questions.htm It isn’t great reading, but I think that if you persist through the article, you might understand that there is more to ID than what you seem to think from your post.

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By: Melantrys http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-188 Melantrys Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:17:00 +0000 http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-188 ID is just a new name for Creationism. Plus they spiced it up a bit. As I said in my other comment, some people believe that God helped evolution along. Fine by me. I can accept that as valid, even if I can't agree. But whether you call it Creationism or Intelligent Design, it's about brainwashing people. On my first research round I came across a lot of forums where young people were promoting ID. Religiously fanatic aggressive lunatics the lot of them. Maybe the theory attracts normal, not fanatical people as well, but the movers and shakers are. And by the way.... even the Pope accepts the Theory of Evolution as valid. Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /www/htdocs/w0081e40/wp-includes/formatting.php on line 75

ID is just a new name for Creationism. Plus they spiced it up a bit.
As I said in my other comment, some people believe that God helped evolution along. Fine by me. I can accept that as valid, even if I can’t agree.
But whether you call it Creationism or Intelligent Design, it’s about brainwashing people. On my first research round I came across a lot of forums where young people were promoting ID. Religiously fanatic aggressive lunatics the lot of them.
Maybe the theory attracts normal, not fanatical people as well, but the movers and shakers are.

And by the way…. even the Pope accepts the Theory of Evolution as valid.

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By: PubliusK http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-189 PubliusK Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:28:00 +0000 http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-189 The biggest problem that I have with ID and teaching it in schools is: who teaches it? what is the source material? Do we simply put forth that things are just too orderly to have been a fluke so therefore someone or something must have done it? It appears to me that the only evidence that can be used to back this up is faith. And how do you teach faith? Who teaches it? Do you expect the same people who studied science in college to suddenly start teaching faith? This is a recipe for failure. Do you have this teacher step down for a few days per year and call in a local priest, rabbi or minister for those days? I would be interested in seeing how this is to be applied for real. Good stuff, Melantrys. Keep writing. Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /www/htdocs/w0081e40/wp-includes/formatting.php on line 75

The biggest problem that I have with ID and teaching it in schools is: who teaches it? what is the source material?

Do we simply put forth that things are just too orderly to have been a fluke so therefore someone or something must have done it? It appears to me that the only evidence that can be used to back this up is faith. And how do you teach faith? Who teaches it? Do you expect the same people who studied science in college to suddenly start teaching faith? This is a recipe for failure. Do you have this teacher step down for a few days per year and call in a local priest, rabbi or minister for those days?

I would be interested in seeing how this is to be applied for real.

Good stuff, Melantrys. Keep writing.

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By: bbb http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-190 bbb Sat, 19 Nov 2005 07:00:00 +0000 http://melantrys.net/2005/11/16/yet-another-update-on-id/#comment-190 like i always say, mel is one smart and sexy mamma! everybody agrees i'm sure. Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /www/htdocs/w0081e40/wp-includes/formatting.php on line 75

like i always say, mel is one smart and sexy mamma!

everybody agrees i’m sure.

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